Thursday, January 4, 2024

Steve’s sheet, money shame, what is it and why do I even have it

A few weeks ago my old buddy and former coworker Steve R. retired.  He sat in the cubicle behind mine for several years, and they don’t come nicer, funnier or more helpful than Steve.  I love the guy.

Steve is 64 and wanted to retire 4 years ago, but then covid struck, the stock market (and his retirement account) crashed and his wife Cindy got very ill.  It took long enough but everything turned around (and Cindy’s all better), so better late than never.  A week after he retired, Steve texted me one night and said “Doug, Cindy is sending me out at 9:30 for chicken & rice!  It’s pretty late but this is how we roll in Retirement Town!” 

Since then, I’ve heard about Retirement Town 3-4 times and I’m glad he’s enjoying it.  I can’t believe I’ve been here myself since January 2015, where did the time go?

This reminds me of my last day in the office, the events that day are etched into my brain.  My boss called me into his office and said he couldn’t believe I was really quitting.  (I’d given my notice a month before, shortly after Thanksgiving.)

He said “You’re not retiring, where are you going?  Highmark?  PNC Bank?”  Nope.  He said “How can you retire, I’m older than you and I can’t retire.  I make more money than you, I probably save more than you.”   I said I did more than save my money, I invested it.

When I left Len’s office, Steve asked what happened in there and I told him.  Steve said “Do you really have enough to retire?”   I said I hoped so.  I had no problem telling him what I had, we often compared notes when it came to investing.

I said “I have $223,000 in a personal stock portfolio, and $15,000 in the bank.  If I can live on $25-27,000 a year, and don’t fall in love with any black widows or get catfished by online romance scammers, I’m hoping that money can last 10 years.  Then I can start spending down my retirement fund, and I’ll have social security too.”

Steve said “Let’s set up a spreadsheet to see how long your non-retirement stocks last” and came up with the simple excel below.  He said it looked like I’d be down to $4,500 by January 2025.

According to this I should be starting January 2024 with $29,367 remaining in my portfolio but it’s quite the opposite; I don’t want to say how much, but I’ve got more now than what I started with in 2015.  How is that even possible?  I guess Steve’s 3% growth estimate was too conservative, and nothing beats the magic of reinvesting dividends, capital gains & a seven year bull market. 

If I could give a person under the age of 40 some advice, I’d tell them to do more than stick their money in the bank.  Invest it.  You don’t even have to know what you’re doing; go to Vanguard, Fidelity, Charles Schwab—open an account, find a mutual fund that invests in the S&P 500, buy shares of that fund.  Buy shares monthly or when you can afford it.  Do this for 20 years.  You’re done.

So why do I almost feel guilty for having what I do?  No one gave it to me, I saved for thirty years and instead of buying a home, put it in stocks instead.   A friend and former classmate of mine wants to retire this year, but doesn’t have a lot besides their social security and a small pension.  At least she owns her home, and her mortgage is paid in full.  Can she do it?  I very much hope so.

I have a one bedroom apartment I’ll be paying rent on forever, yet I still feel like I have more than my fair share.  I was talking to another friend and relating all of this, and she said it sounded like “money shame”.  I said I’d never heard of it, she said it’s the feeling of shame you get for having too much or too little money.

It’s not like I’m a millionaire, but if I continue living the way I’ve been living for the last 30 years, I’m pretty much set.  There’s nothing wrong with that, right?  Isn’t that the goal here?

Maybe I retired a little too early than my subconscious liked, but better too early than too late.  I’m just glad Steve & Cindy are enjoying living in Retirement Town.

40 comments:

  1. I retired in 2008 with Social Security and what was contributed to my annuities by me and my employer. It's been enough to pay the bills and put a teeny bit away each month. I'll never be rich, but I never wanted to be anyway. You sound just like me, Doug! Congratulations on your wise investments. :-)

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    1. Thanks DJan, and I'm glad things have worked out for you--you are one person for sure who made the most of their retirement! :^)

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  2. nice!!!! love reading about your success in this area! I have been all around the world and nothing is more wretched than poverty (or extreme riches). Being an anonymous online commenter I have the privilege, of course, of being presumptuous with advice. I would advise you to work on your health. Get a daily exercise routine and stick to it. Lose about 60 pounds. Put aside the usual American poison and stick to vege, fruits and lean proteins. You already seem to have a nice support system, of course, but it never hurts to bulk up on your support group. Then you'll be winning on all matrices.

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  3. You’ve made great money decisions and are enjoying the rewards. I was able to retire early and am in a similar position. I try to teach anyone who will listen, but it usually falls on deaf ears. ๐Ÿ˜Š

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    1. Falls on deaf ears... you're so right, it does! Thank you A, and I'm happy to read you're in a similar position. I do love the freedom. ๐Ÿ™‚

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    2. Sorry I forgot to sign my name. It’s Joyce

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    3. Thanks Joyce, always glad to hear from you! :^)

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  4. Hi Doug! Congrats on your wise financial decisions. I remember when I was in my 30's; 401K's were a new way to invest. I wasn't crazy about putting money away (retirement seems so far away to a 30-something), but I did, and now am so glad I did! The investments paid off very well.

    It almost seems like you could loosen up the purse strings a little; but each of us has our own comfort level on spending down our assets.

    Carole

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    1. Thanks very much Carole, and we must be close in age as I remember when 401Ks were a new way as well! I'm glad you did it when you were young, I did too. It's funny what you said here, this past year I have been trying to loosen the purse strings a little. Some habits are hard to break, haha. :^)

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  5. The stock market provides lots of opportunity and investing is important to guarantee a comfortable future. My son loves the market and being young he has taken some investment risks that I would not have taken but he's still doing well. He is a day trader and it serves him well.

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    1. A day trader! Susan, I can't imagine but wow good for your son. It does seem you need to be pretty young to pursue this sort of thing. But I hardly know what I'm doing and it's still paid well. :^)

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  6. Hi Doug, congratulations on your intelligent investing! Nine years retired….wow!
    We were pretty conservative in our investing but consistent. I think we have been doing it for thirty years now. We haven’t had a mortgage for twenty years so that enables us to save a good bit. The interest rates now are wonderful for investors…not so much for people with debt. Lovely that Steve and Cindy are enjoying retirement.
    Take care.❤️

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    1. Thank you Robin and you're right, 9 years--it's hard to believe! Anyway--knowing where you & Chuck live, and your house is paid off, talk about sitting on (rather in) a gold mine! That really is wonderful. And you're exactly right about the high interest rates, but they never seem to last very long these days... I remember when I was a kid, 6% interest on bank savings was the norm. Anyway, thanks again and yes I'm happy for Steve & Cindy too. (She's a funny, friendly character) :^)

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  7. It was so much harder (sometimes impossible) to save with five children. But my husband and I were conservative. We did want to own our home and, although our jobs didn't pay the highest, we had good pension funds. My master plan was to invest once our children were settled, but I hadn't counted on my mother's ALS diagnosis and after her death, my father's severe stroke. I left the workforce in my early 50's to care for them. We did pay off our original house we purchased in 1978. And I had a list of improvements and maintenance I wanted completed by retirement to make it an elderly friendly forever home. We put any extra money aside for savings and investments. We were able to comfortably retire by 60 and now that we got our pensions at 65, we actually have more money than we did when we were working. I have been shifting money into safe investments that are doing very well right now. I made enough in interest on my CDs last year to remodel a bathroom. My personal problem is the jealous remarks by friends who are still working or struggling due to past spending for the first 60 years of their lives. We didn't buy the big fancy house, we didn't drive big expensive cars, we didn't go on fancy cruises or Disney vacations. I refuse to feel bad. We had a plan and worked for it. People think that retirement is going to be paradise. Not if you don't plan ahead.

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    1. Miss Merry, thank you for taking the time to share all this here, I loved reading this--it's amazing what you (and your husband) accomplished. Good for you. I also appreciate what you said about refusing to feel bad (because of others resentments), yes you're exactly right! I think I need to read this again, a couple times over. Thanks again. :^)

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    2. I agree, miss Merry should NOT feel bad, she worked and planned and it paid off.

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  8. Hi Doug,

    After reading this post, I’m sitting here wondering if I can come up with a plan to put me in Pittsburgh for at least a few hours so we could perhaps visit at Starbucks and I could buy you a cup of coffee. I think the conversation would be fascinating. ๐Ÿ˜Š So, you retired in ’15. I see in your “About Me” you say, “Just your average sixty something …” Now, Doug, I’m mid-70s. And the next two paragraphs are for anyone out there, lucky enough to be under 40 ๐Ÿ˜Š who happens to read this …

    Read this paragraph of Doug’s post again … “If I could give a person under the age of 40 some advice, I’d tell them to do more than stick their money in the bank. Invest it. You don’t even have to know what you’re doing; go to Vanguard, Fidelity, Charles Schwab—open an account, find a mutual fund that invests in the S&P 500, buy shares of that fund. Buy shares monthly or when you can afford it. Do this for 20 years. You’re done.”

    As one who is older than Doug, has been retired longer than Doug, and has lived in a similar way as Doug … what he is saying is 100% truth. You can bet on it!

    Great post to start the new year. Thanks, Doug, for sharing. John

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    1. John, thanks so much my friend--boy did you just make my day. I mean it, you have a way with words and your comments are always wonderful to read. I wish we did live closer, I'd very much enjoy meeting up with you for that cup of coffee. Who knows, maybe someday.. :^)

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    2. Thank you Doug ... and, yes, who knows ... maybe someday :-) I hope so! :-)

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  9. Doug, you speak truth to wisdom...but how many are wise enough to hear? I see younger people spending so much money on travel, cars, clothes, lavish homes. I am amazed.

    We, too, have lived a modest lifestyle and are quite happy with it. We were fortunate to buy real estate when very young and to be able to retire in our 50s, for which I am very grateful. Military and union jobs benefited us the most. Good pensions, good insurance, lifetime benefits all came from these various places of employment.

    We don't have lots of extras, but we have sufficient, and I am thankful.

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    1. dkzody, thanks so much for sharing your own story and this is the perfect example of not having to be a tech genius or lottery winner to be financially independent, just a plan-aheader, and responsible. I like you a lot, and I'm very happy for you :^)

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  10. As a single mom, there never seemed to be enough money, but as the children "aged out" of my care, I went to a financial advisor and started putting a small amount from each paycheque into mutual funds. My goal was to have a fund for travel after retirement with a plan to use a portion each year until I was 80. Like your friend Steve, my spreadsheet didn't quite pan out, I lost a third of the value in the market crash of 2020/21, but it has since rebounded and I should be able to continue travelling until I'm 85.
    I did retire early too when I was just about 60. Before hand I did the math, with spreadsheets to track expenses pre and post retirement. When I decided that the income would be sufficient to meet my needs, I retired and with my pensions, I've got enough to manage, especially after selling the house. I've invested most of that money too and that will only add to my income going forward.
    I would never have tried to invest on my own - I know too little to do it myself. My word of advice to anyone with investments is - don't look at them too often. With the volatility of the markets, it can be frightening!

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    1. Saku I really enjoyed this, thank you for sharing! Your own story is both remarkable and interesting---and your own advice is exactly right, I wish I'd heard it 20 years ago--"don't look at your stocks too often". Boy is this true! Congratulations on your own success!

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    2. Oops, I signed in with my cat's name...just letting this post was from me. :)

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    3. Haha!! I thought this was a nice Indian person--thanks Maebeme! :^)

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  11. Dug, DH retired in 2009 and me in 2011... so it's been 15 and 13 years for us. We had our 401K and some money my mom had left us which helped until SS kicked in at 66. We did lose a bit when things got bad, but we do have a financial advisor and we've been able to continue our normal lifestyle so far. We don't do any world traveling or much buying, etc. and we did manage to own our home by retirement, so all in all we do OK. I just wish things (food, utilities, etc.) would stop going up so much... as maintenance is getting expensive.

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    1. Rian, thanks very much for sharing--for as long as I've known you, I feel like you manage to surprise me still, everytime I hear from you! I'm very glad to hear you and DH are doing okay (and I know you have a lovely home) but you're right about how prices seem out of control the last few years.. (I almost did a blog about giving up Wheaties because they're now $7.00 a box.) Hopefully inflation is finally cooling down for a spell.

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  12. Your advice is excellent, Doug. I started planning for retirement in my 20s and my late husband and I were relatively frugal although our kids cost us a lot in dance, gymnastics, music, travel and college. A worthwhile investment though. I too have some guilt admitting how much money I have--partly through my own efforts, partly thanks to my late husband's investments and some because of inheritance or just plain luck. It seems like much more of a struggle for younger folks though; they are barely able to keep up with their rents/house payment and many have school loans to pay off as well. When I think back though, the first house my husband bought was 10% interest and that was a GOOD deal (VA loan); he didn't pay a lot for it but the interest rates were hefty. I didn't make enough as a beginning teacher to qualify for a credit card so the bank manager (whose son was a friend of one of my brothers) co-signed so that I could get one. You've brought back so many memories, Doug. Thank you!

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    1. Wow, thanks for sharing Margaret, you always leave such honest & interesting feedback. I'm glad you 'get it', but you still managed to raise a family and survive the death of a spouse, that's remarkable--as is needing a co-signer for your first credit card and you were a teacher too! My gosh!

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  13. Kudos to your investment savy, Doug!!! That is one of my weaker areas. Happily, I found that when I retired, a lot of work expenses ended as well. No more weekly car fill ups for commuting, no more downtown parking fees, no more pricey lunch outings with co-workers or staff birthday\Christmas presents to purchase; no more buying new office clothes and no more shopping excursions at lunchtime.

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    1. Thanks Florence! Well, I can't imagine you having a 'weak' area, I know how self-sufficient you are and everything you continue to accomplish. I think you're doing pretty well, the stock stuff is for the rest of us, haha But really, you're impressive enough already. :^)

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  14. Doug I admire your wisdom in investments! I retired nine years ago this past December. Although Tom and I each had 401ks rolled into IRAs we did not have the kind of growth you wisely achieved. I did set up certain conditions before I would allow myself to retire though. We had our home paid off and took care of any big home maintenance (new HVAC, windows, etc.). We had a good savings in the bank for emergencies, our IRAs, and we have managed to live off our Social Security. It helps that we are not big spenders and I admit to carefully managing the money we do have. Retirement is more than worth it to me!
    You have every reason to be proud of your investments and careful planning. By now you have definitely earned the right to enjoy some of that nest egg!
    I hope you are feeling better Doug!




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    1. Bonnie thanks so much and the admiration works both ways, what you & Tom prepped for and accomplished here is terrific! That's wonderful about having your home paid for and updated too, that's impressive. Well, right now I'm in the 'want to enjoy it but still want to be careful' phase, when I begin collecting social security I'll relax the rules a bit. :^)

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  15. I've always thought that the thing people need to learn to do is to live within their means. We have a friend who is a lawyer. He is a good person, really. But he is older than we are and said that he's always wanted to retire, but can't. We went to his house to pick up a boiler system for our house. His house is breathtaking. Right on the lake. Boat tied up out back at their own boat launch. We both agreed that he could retire...but he probably never will. Stuff is a lot more important to some folks than others.

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    1. Well said, Debby. I actually think this was (is) a problem of mine. I got so used to living below my means, I am not sure I can adapt to living within them. But more and more, I'm trying!

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  16. I have a little "money shame" in my case it's from having too little and from NOT knowing much earlier what I should have been doing all my working years. My brother invested a lot but we weren't close at the time and I never knew he did any investing so didn't ask about it. He didn't marry until late in his life and had only one daughter many years before that, and supported her and her mother until she finished school. Meanwhile, I was raising four kids and paying many of the bills because my husband (now my ex) was gambling and drinking away the mortgage money so I had to make sure the lights were on and food was on the table. We had to sell the house anyway because the mortgage got so far behind the bank was going to sell it from under us and I only found out when I opened his mail one day...
    Anyway, once the kids got oder and started working I managed to save a little for myself, and manage well enough with my age pension and a little kick in from my superannuation.

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    1. River, very sorry to read about the loss of your house and the hard life with your ex. It sounds to me like you did pretty well and managed to accomplish a lot. And it's great that now you can take care of yourself.

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  17. Invest in stocks? Don't buy a house? Well, it worked for you. We didn't invest in stocks (except briefly until the market crashed), but we did buy a house. We are struggling now because of David's stay in a nursing home. We're in a terrible situation.

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    1. Gigi I know and I'm really sorry. We are all waiting for good news from you & David,. You're in my thoughts everyday.

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